CalPortland & Innovations in Cement Production - Uptime Logistics
On this episode of Uptime Logistics our host, Doug Draper of Acme Distribution hosts two experts from cement producer CalPortland. Tina McIntyre and Bill Jerald of CalPortland discuss new trends in the cement production industry including a basic overview of the process, sustainability efforts, and material science.
Headquartered in California and founded in 1891, CalPortland has provided innovation and technology to the world of cement production for over a century. This summer, CalPortland announced a new line of sustainable and renewable cement products called Advancement. In addition to more sustainable materials, CalPortland’s Bill Jerald explains the energy requirements of cement production and the revolutionary ways cement kilns will be fueled in the future!
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Doug Draper 0:06
Hello, thank you for joining us today on Uptime Logistics. I'm your host, Doug Draper, and I'm with the Denver transportation Club. Today, I'd like to welcome a couple of phenomenal guests that are joining us out in the California region. They are with Cal Portland. And we're going to have a little conversation about concrete and cement and sustainability. So we're looking forward to it. We always like to learn a little bit about our guests before we get started. So I'd like to introduce to the audience, Tina McIntyre. And Bill Gerald. They're both with Cal Portland. And let's learn a little bit about you guys. So Tina, once you give us a little summary of kind of what you've been involved with, and how you ended up at Cal Portland's?
Tina McIntyre 0:49
Thanks, Doug. Good morning. So I'm Tina McIntyre. And I'm the vice president marketing. And I've been with Cal Portland now for about five years. So I came to Cal Portland through an asset acquisition of the Oregon cement plant five years ago. And at that time, I worked for a company named Martin Marietta. And prior to that it was Texas industries. I've have about 25 years of cement, concrete related experience in the industry, and have just so enjoyed my time with the industry, great people. Technical, you know, the technology and the innovations that we're seeing moving forward is just really exciting. So it's a great time to be part of this industry. So thanks for having me, Doug.
Doug Draper 1:43
Yeah, for sure. worksite. Yeah, for sure. All right, Bill, Bill, you're up my friend. Tell us about yourself and your journey with Cal Portland.
Bill Gerald 1:53
Yeah, I'm Bill Gerald, and I'm the Chief energy engineer for Cal Portland. I've been with California in 27 years now. I different positions at the cement plant in Arizona, and then became the Energy Manager for the company in 2007. Prior to coming to the cement industry, I was I was in the US Navy, nuclear power program. And, and I actually got a degree from the University Arizona nuclear engineering. So it was quite a diversion from my nuclear engineering path. But it's been a very rewarding career to be involved in cement. And like Tina says, it's a very technical industry. And it's, there's just a lot of a lot of changes going on, and a lot of process improvements. It's just been an exciting time. And it's a great career and a great group of people in California.
Doug Draper 2:42
Right? That's terrific. Well, you started to intimidate me a little bit when you said nuclear engineers. So you're gonna have to dumb this whole thing down for me for sure. Right? And we'll start everybody's into virtual learning now. So it's very, very apropos, if you will, that we're going to go back to class, in the sense that I think it's important for our audience to understand the difference between cement and concrete. I think it's used interchangeably. And people may not know and understand the difference, that one's an ingredient and one's a finished product, so to speak. So maybe let's just kind of start there about the differences and why there are and kind of go from there. So I don't know, Bill, maybe we'll throw that one over to you.
Unknown Speaker 3:23
Okay, yeah. So it really is in our industry, cement and concrete. They're interrelated. But we do like to make sure that everybody understands, you know, what are we talking about at different times. So, cement is, is the product that it starts out as limestone, every cement plant in the world is pretty typically near a limestone deposit. And you mined that material, and you put it into cement kiln you it's a furnace, and you increase that temperature, and you convert this, this material into what we call Portland cement, right, and it comes out as a product, similar to lava. And then you have to read Crush it to grind it down to the powdered product. Now, the Portland cement is essentially the glue. When you make concrete you take, you know, let's just pick you know, very simple numbers 1/3, water 1/3 aggregates, which we use some sort of sand and rock, and, and then you add the Portland cement, and you mix that together. And as soon as that water hits the cement, it starts to hydrate and it's starting a process where it's going to harden right, it's going to harden all that aggregate together. So concrete is that finished product that's, that's, you know, in the foundation of our buildings and the foundations of our roads. And cement is just the the portion that's the glue, that that is introduced to make the concrete you know, that's, that's a very one on one low level, there's obviously a lot more there's a huge amount of chemistry involved and, and and how you make it as is the quality control is very important. And it but that is basically submit one on one. And one thing to think about right? That that truck is going down the street, it's got the rotating barrel, right? That is a concrete truck that has got concrete in it that we're delivering to a customer. I think almost all of us were raised up saying, hey, there's a cement truck. And that's not a cement truck. It's a country truck.
Doug Draper 5:17
Got it? Yeah, well, you kind of lead into my next question about the truck going going down the road? Is it this is kind of just a one off question. But generally, do they erect temporary? Concrete facilities around job sites, I've always seen that before. There's this little complex that pops up obviously big facilities where you're are not where all the construction is. So how does that work? Whenever there's a big infrastructure program, and making sure that they're they're mixing the batches close to the actual product, or projects, we'll talk about that a little bit.
Unknown Speaker 5:53
Right? You know, that definitely can happen, what Not we, you know, our company, we have dozens and dozens of ready mix concrete plants that are providing concrete to, you know, our regions. But you're right, if there's a big project, there's many times that they will build the we call it a batch plant, right, a concrete batch plant. And it'll be it'll, if they're mobile, they're on wheels, they can move and set up pretty pretty quickly. And that way, it's right there on site delivering it and you know, very, very efficiently and very fast right to that particular job. And then when that when that job's done, they'll tear it down and move it on to the next one.
Doug Draper 6:30
Nice. Well, that's good. I know, one of the things that we want to talk about on the show here is kind of the sustainability aspect of the industry. And to be honest, whenever we were talking, before the show, I was amazed at how important that concept is, and how Cal Portland has really embraced the importance and the need to have sustainability in your industry. So Tina, I'm gonna throw this one over to you. So maybe on a broader perspective, when you say sustainability in your industry, what kind of what does that mean, on a 30,000 foot level?
Unknown Speaker 7:06
Sure, I mean, when we talk about sustainability, we're talking about long term resilience, you know, a product that's going to last, you know, more than just for the immediate needs of something. So we're talking about from the minute it leaves the plant, you know, whether it's cement, going to a ready mix, plant, and then that turning into concrete, and then that, you know, ultimately turning into a road or a building or a, you know, any type of structure, a bridge or, you know, a day on what we're looking at is, you know, the idea that this product is going to be there for the long term, you know, because it is resilient and durable. You know, so, especially in our industry, you know, we're looking at solutions and creating solutions that are sustainable solutions. And since we didn't mention this at the beginning, but Cal Portland has been around since 1891. So we've got a long history, you know, within the industry, but we've also have a long history of providing sustainable solutions, whether it's directly through cement, and through our products, or things that we've done in and around the, in and around our company, for instance, we have this old aggregate facility in Washington, been around for years, you know, for decades, what once we had finished mining that location, we completely reclaimed that property. And it's now known as chambers pay Golf Course, which, if you're a golfer, you know, that that was the site of the US, the US Open Championship back in 2015. And it's just a gorgeous facility, you know, out on the water. But a lot of people don't know that that was a former aggregate facility. So, you know, reclamation is just one way of looking at, you know, a variety of ways to describe sustainability in our industry.
Doug Draper 9:12
Nice. You know, there's a designation that's out there called Energy Energy Star. And I've always seen that and I'm sure audience on appliances and other things where there's a nice logo, and there's kind of a motion star. And you kind of talk about the sustainability of that, but I didn't realize you could have that in industries and businesses and you guys are Energy Star certified a little bit. So I know Bill, you're pretty proud of that you've been involved with with developing that designation. So maybe jump in a little bit about what energy started means specific to your industry.
Unknown Speaker 9:49
Yeah, yeah. You know, ENERGY STAR, it. It's a great program, right. And, you know, the first thing to know is ENERGY STAR is actually an EPA program and it The brand recognition is pretty good, as you said, you know, you can go and you can find a refrigerator. And if that if that Energy Star logo was on that refrigerator, that means that it's past certain requirements for energy efficiency. It's, you know, I think like, like I said, most of us recognize that now, what's part of the same program is there's an ENERGY STAR Industrial Program. And it's a partnership. And what this partnership does is it brings a company like mine and industrial energy, intense company, and we sign up and we become a partner with ENERGY STAR. And along with that is many, many other industries, people, companies in my industry, as well as others, that we meet regularly, we share best practices, we discuss energy topics, and what are the what are the what are the best methods for for energy efficiency, what are the next technologies, it's a constant sharing amongst all of these companies, and in that, that, that partnership, I've learned so much from it, and then the stuff that I learned, I bring it back to my company, and, and then in return as a partner, you return the favor, right, and you mentor other companies, and I will talk to other companies and try to bring them into energy start, right, we've all we're trying to always grow the program. Because the more people you can get in a partnership, the more you can can share with each other. And like you said, some of the one of the banners of an Energy Star program is they they really believe in the feedback and recognizing achievements. And and so we do have we have ENERGY STAR certified cement facilities are one in Arizona has been a nighttime ENERGY STAR certified cement plant, we've also got multiple plants that are within what's called the Energy Star Challenge. And that challenge is that you you're you say you're going to or you sign up to reduce your energy efficiency by 10%. And if you reduce it by 10%, within five years, then you will become what's called the Energy Star Challenge achiever and right, so once again, this is a recognition, it's a way to tell our employees, we're doing a good job, it's a way to tell the public that we're doing everything we can do to reduce our energy content. You know, and that part of sustainability, that's, that's where we, you know, we're trying to reduce our energy content all the time, right, it's economically it's important, right, and what the less I buy energy, the less money I spend. But then on a sustainable aspect, the less energy I consume, the less emissions either from the power generation or from the direct emissions from our planet. So that really has been, you know, a big part of our our sustainability program to this point. And ENERGY STAR has been instrumental in maintaining our energy management program, you know, and all the tools that it provides us.
Doug Draper 12:55
It's good, well, between repurposing into a golf course and the ENERGY STAR, it's obviously a passion of Cal Portland with the sustainability. So Tina, I'll probably throw this one to use and sure the sales and marketing guru, like, why is Cal Portland so interested and passionate about the whole sustainability project, we build a spoke about a couple of cool things and, and alignments you've had with ENERGY STAR and the support you've given to other companies, but maybe take a step back and say, Why do you care about this so much? What's the underlying theme behind that? It's very impressive. But just curious, I'd say why have you embraced it to this level?
Unknown Speaker 13:38
Sure. I mean, like Bill said, obviously, it makes sense financially, but it also makes sense for the environment, you know, depending on what, what part of sustainability or what we're doing, you know, whether it's, like Bill spoke of with the, the Energy Star Award, we really take a lot of pride and Bill's been instrumental, along with his energy management team of creating this culture within within Cal Portland, where employees truly take the ENERGY STAR message and providing efficiencies and looking for different ways to create savings that you know, just become natural within the Californian environment. But I mean, looking past our company, we're just being you know, we really truly are trying to be really good environmental stewards to the communities in which we live, you know, we want to take care of the people that you know, work for us and the communities in which are located you know, so, you know, we really try to be active in the communities where we where we operate. And we try to you know, again, going back to that really cool golf course which you need to go look up. Just just you can see how beautiful it is. You know, just trying to create, you know, in reclaim the areas that we If you don't mind and processed, so I think it's it's, it really goes to taking care of our people taking care of, you know, the environment that we that we live in, whether it's local, or, you know, the environment as a whole.
Doug Draper 15:17
Yeah, that's great. I know carbon emissions is kind of a buzzword out in the world right now, especially with some of the new leadership back of Washington DC, and you guys had made mention that concept of net zero by 2050. Seems like a long way off. But, you know, things, lots of stuff needs to happen between now and there. So maybe talk about that initiative, and what the net net zero for 2050 really means.
Unknown Speaker 15:50
Yeah, well, our parent company to Heyo, they have, they have basically said, you know, we have put this, you know, this goal of being net zero by 2050. And so, you know, we we, you know, have followed the, you know, definitely followed suit, and are, along with the rest of the industry, you know, are setting these goals of, you know, trying to be carbon neutral, whether it's, you know, promoting cements producing cements that are lower in their carbon footprint, we just came out with a new product called advancement. And simply by changing the way that we produce us produce the cement by adding limestone into the process, we are creating, we're creating a cement that's called or lowering carbon by 10%. So, and it doesn't, it doesn't change any of the performance capabilities, you know, everything sort of, you know, apples to apples, when you look at, you know, ordinary Portland cement compared to this new Portland limestone cement product that, you know, with that we just introduced called advancement. But so why wouldn't you use a product that's automatically going to lower your carbon footprint by 10%. So we're taking initiatives and really trying to find ways of how we can lower our carbon footprint. I mean, so we, in the beginning of, of our conversation, we really spoke a lot about our ready mix, and how much ready mix of cement goes into ready mix products, and where that goes, you know, whether it's a building or a, or road, or, you know, some sort of structure, you know, ready mix concrete is the most used building product in the world. And it's been around for for, you know, 1000s of years. So, because we produce such a large volume of concrete, which uses cement, we, you know, there are a lot of carbon emissions, you know, that go along with that, because of the volume. So, you know, we're really looking at ways of how we can, you know, do our best to cut back on emissions and ways to streamline you know, our efficiencies, and, and just basically lower carbon footprint.
Doug Draper 18:21
Nice. Bill, you and I spoke before about some of the standards out in California and California, we seem to set the standard, if you will, and the rest of the country follows. You always hear about California emissions on automobiles and things of that nature. I know there's a program out there related to tax incentives, based on the amount of carbon generated. Could you talk a little bit about that and how that carbon offset and tax credits work?
Unknown Speaker 18:52
Yeah, so it's, it's, it's, I call it a cap and trade program where they, your your industry, and ours being one of them, we're a large carbon emitter, and they they cap the amounts are having a allotment every year of carbon that we're allowed to get out and tons. And if we are above the allotment, we have to buy carbon credits to offset the the amount. And then each year that carbon offset is reduced. So that they're trying to do is trying to drive down the carbon emissions and, and bring financial incentives for us because either you know, you find you you buy the carbon credits to offset what your your production needs are, or you somehow try to reduce that carbon carbon offset, and there's an open market, there's a market that trades carbon and, and you know, the price of that carbon fluctuates based based on you know, demand supply and demand. And it's so it's an economic way for you know, forcing industries to to to reduce carbon emissions. And as you said, California being, you know, the one state that's actually doing it. So we have to perform are to cement plants within that state, you know, outside of the state, you don't have to perform to that level, it's only internal. But as you say, with the new administration, I would expect some sort of, it's being discussed in Congress. Now, some sort of a carbon, either carbon tax or similar cap and trade method of trying to, you know, economically incentivize reducing your carbon emissions.
Doug Draper 20:30
It's great. Well, we're here today with Bill Gerald and Tina McIntyre at Cal Portland, and we're really diving into concrete sustainability and some amazing things that their companies involved with. So I'm going to switch over and talk about this little triangle, I think that we all grew up with, and I think it was started back in the 70s, at least when I was growing up. In school, it was a big thing, reduce, reuse, and recycle. We could even throw in repurpose a little bit in there, Tina, with your golf course, example. But using those three in that triangle, reduce, reuse, and recycle. What are some specific examples that Cal Portland is doing that may fit into each one of those categories? Tina, maybe I'll start with you.
Unknown Speaker 21:14
Sure, you know, I guess one of the one of the first things and most tangible things that I can think of is that, you know, you can, I don't know if many people know that you can recycle concrete. So when a building or a road, you know, meets the end of its life, you know, after 50 or 6075 years, you know, you can take demolish that building or, you know, break up that road, take that existing concrete, reduce it back down by crashing it into smaller aggregate, and then reuse that aggregate in new readymix to rebuild that building or another building or another road or, you know, in some other application. But I think that's a great example of how we can take what we've produced, reuse it reimplemented, you know, and you keep hearing about, well, I hope people are hearing about this idea called the circular economy, where you take what you've created, or a product from what you've created, take it through its lifecycle. And then it meets the end of its lifecycle, you know, and then you take it and implement it back into, you know, another lifecycle. And so you just keep using that product over and over again, keeps it out of landfills, keeps it in use in some capacity. And that whole idea of a circular economy is just a great way to explain sustainability, and is a great example to show how our industry, the cement and concrete industry, you know, are doing, and creating ideas and creating ways to keep our keep our products recyclable and renewable. So I think that's, I think one of the easiest ways to, to describe that concept.
Doug Draper 23:12
Yeah, that's great. Bill, there's a buzzword that I've heard and in doing some research with, with Cal Portland, and the industry is sustainable concrete. Right. Sounds cool. And wanted to see if you could elaborate on that. When I hear sustainable I'm like, Okay, I want to make sure the roads still safe, and the buildings still structurally safe. But I know there's some cool technology out there. It's happening. So when we hear the word sustainable concrete, you know, tell me more, what does that really mean?
Unknown Speaker 23:47
Well, Tina mentioned advancement, you know, this, this cement that's got a 10% reduction in emissions and in sustainability and the concrete, it's very long live, right? It's lifetime, the lifecycle of concrete is, is enormous, and reducing the carbon content that goes into the concrete? Well, it's going to go over decades of the life of that concrete, if it's not gonna be demolished in 10 years, it's going to be down there for you know, literally 50 years or even up to 100 years. And that sustainability comes in if we can reduce the carbon content on the front end, and then have a very long lifecycle for that concrete. It's, it's proven to you know, it's sustainable attributes, yes, there is an energy, you know, portion at the front that we have to we have to put a lot of energy into this, this cement, and the chemical composition changes, but the lifecycle of the of the concrete overall is, is a tremendous and we want to make sure you're looking at the full lifecycle of concrete to understand that you can't have stainless concrete that you can have a product you know, just like we're Talking about reducing our our emissions and reducing the carbon content as much as you can. But provide a product, as you said that is safe has has good, the proper quality and meets all standards that you know, every state has very, very high standards for the concrete that they require. And in order to perform the job, they have to meet all those performance standards. Nice.
Doug Draper 25:24
Alright, so I've been working on this cool catchphrase for a while. So hopefully, it'll resonate. So we're going to talk about some future trends. Right. So maybe we'll start teeming with you. So here I go. All right. Talk to us about a couple of trends that are going to rock the concrete industry. That was definitely I've worked on that all day. Right. So talk to us about some things that are happening fast forward, five, seven years down the road, what what are some technologies that are going to be be with us? Talk a little bit about the forward nature of the industry?
Unknown Speaker 25:58
Sure, sure. And love any kind of pun that has to do with rocks or cement? Creating the foundation. I love it. I think going back to carbon emissions. As you mentioned before, you know, that's a big topic right now, you know, you heard in the elections, you're hearing it every day in the news cycle, you know, so I think that's definitely going to be something that's going to be with us for the next 510 1520 years. You know, I mean, we talked about net zero by 2050, California has net zero by 2030. You know, there's there's all of these, you know, deadlines or not deadlines, but guidelines and years that we're really trying to achieve a net zero carbon balance, you know, by but so I think carbon is definitely going to be an issue that, that our industry is going to be looking at whether it's looking at different ways for carbon sequestration, you know, at the plant at the ready mix, plant, you know, downstream. Just different ways to limit our emission capabilities. Yeah.
Doug Draper 27:25
I get it, I get it, you're out. You're you guys are certainly passionate about it. Bill, I'll ask you the same question. Any anything cool coming down the road in the next five or seven years? Unrelated to carbon footprints, what you're the engineer, you're in the lab mixing stuff up, I wasn't sure what your thoughts were on future trends?
Unknown Speaker 27:44
Well, for sure, alternative fuels are going to be a big target for us. Cal Portland, you know, getting the permits to burn oil and alternative fuels can be a wide variety of things we actually had, we have the ability to burn rubber tire chips in Arizona, and we used to do whole tires in California before that plant shut down. And, and that's, that's, uh, you know, it's a good fuel. And it's a way to get rid of, you know, a landfill issue and make a fuel out of its alternative fuels I think are a big, you know, Tina, lightly mentioned, carbon sequestration, there's been a lot of pilot projects in the country on power plants for reducing carbon content. cement plants are the next obvious target. And there's been a slew a few cement companies that are actually joining up with department energy and having pilot programs where you're actually trying to capture the co2, as it leaves the stack and capture it and either put it underground or make some sort of a product out of it. I think that's going to be big. You know, we have 24 megawatts of wind power at our Mojave cement plant, I think renewables will be, you know, a big in the future. It's, you know, as we, as battery storage, and renewable has come down in price, I think there'll be a lot more renewable on site. At at facilities, I'm always constantly looking and trying to, you know, make, make it all pencil out, make it work, and to get more renewables in our portfolio. So some of the those are some of the next years in the next few years, things I'll be working on.
Doug Draper 29:22
Right? Well, Bill, Tina, I can't thank you enough for joining us today. I've learned a lot and I know our audience has. And you know, on a personal note, I'm truly impressed with what Cal Portland is doing and embracing concept of, you know, reducing the footprint, engaging the environment and understanding how important it is and really having a company wide perspective. So I just want to say you know, congratulations on that. It's very, very cool. So thank both of you for joining us today. And I'd like to thank our audience as well for joining us on uptime logistics course it's brought to you by CAP logistics. You can learn more about CAP Logis. Next and the services they provide at the link below. Obviously visit cap logistics.com For all of your transportation and logistics needs. So I think that's it. We're going to call today and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode of uptime, logistics. Take care